Dan Kenney: Article 15: Can Catholics be Politicians?
Allen Hebert
· 8 months ago
Interesting article, I am not a big fan of a pacifist attitude. I would have to say that the objective would have to play into the decision making. For example, our objective is to relieve the suffering/genocide of a particular people, thus we must use lethal force against military targets to relieve said suffering, but those in power in that particular area will use civilians as shields against our attack, thus there is a high probability of the loss of innocent lives. In this case, the decision could be made to go ahead and go in to the area and take out the enemy even though a civilian life or many of them would probably be lost.
How else would the Nazis have been stopped in WWII. The extermination of the Jews and Catholic Religious and the physically and mentally ill may very well have been continuing to this day if other governments had not taken action.
DanKenney
· 8 months ago
Allen, thanks so much for reading and I have to admit, a pacifistic attitude is not my normal operating procedure. My desire is to do whatever it takes to get bad guys. So, to check my desire, sometimes I need to reflect on what my Catholic Church teaches and in particular what the Papal leadership is saying about these issues. If I am to seriously consider the Pope's leadership in issues of sexual morality, for instance, then certainly I should heed the Pope's counsel on an issue as serious and important as waging war.
And though War is horrible and nauseating the Church does understand that at times it happens and that at times it is even just to wage war. But what the Church, and in particular the most recent Papal leadership has emphasized is that care be taken to wage Just War and to wage War with Just Tactics.
I completely agree that War waged against Germany in WWII was Just War. That does not mean that all of the tactics we used were just.
Yes, there are times when bad guys use innocent people as human shields. Does that negate their "innocent-ness"? If they are knowlingly participating then they have become combatants and do lose their innocent status. But if through no fault of their own, they are being used as shields, they still retain their innocent-ness, don't they?
And the Catholic Church is clear on this issue. It is never permissible to kill innocent people.
When it comes to terrorism, that makes things very, very difficult....because we are trying to stop people who kill innocent people. And this is precisely why I think it is so difficult for a Catholic who is truly trying to follow the leadership of his Church, to make some of these very difficult decisions that a Commander in Chief may have to make.
But my bigger point is that as Catholics we should truly lead American culture in our fight against all Moral Evil. And we should continue to wrestle with issues like you and I are doing right now. Thanks again Allen!
Norski
· 8 months ago
First, with respect: The lead paragraph does not necessarily imply pacifism. I believe it is intended as a small-scale example of applying part of 'just war' teachings to real-world situations.
Second: Applying 'just war' doctrine to international diplomacy is just one sort of decision a Catholic political leader might face.
Now, finally, my comment:
"Can Catholics be Politicians?" Yes.
Nominal Catholics - people who say they're Catholics, but demonstrate little evidence of having learned Catholic beliefs and practices, are in politics today. Sometimes prominently.
Catholics who do understand the basics of their faith - and perhaps more - have little choice but to engage in the political life of their nation, to the extent that their abilities and the laws and customs of their nation allow.
This is my "opinion" - but, much more to the point, it is what the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) says.
"...Catholics who bring their moral convictions into public life do not threaten democracy or pluralism but enrich them and the nation. The separation of church and state does not require division between belief and public action, between moral principles and political choices, but protects the right of believers and religious groups to practice their faith and act on their values in public life...." (http://www.usccb.org/bishops/catholicsinpolitic...) (more at http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2004/04-162.htm and elsewhere on usccb.org)
I'm strongly inclined to agree that the time when it might have made sense for Catholics living in America to bend over backward to show that they're 'real Americans' has passed. The time to act like Catholics is here.
All Comments
How else would the Nazis have been stopped in WWII. The extermination of the Jews and Catholic Religious and the physically and mentally ill may very well have been continuing to this day if other governments had not taken action.
is not my normal operating procedure. My desire is to do whatever it takes
to get bad guys. So, to check my desire, sometimes I need to reflect on
what my Catholic Church teaches and in particular what the Papal leadership
is saying about these issues. If I am to seriously consider the Pope's
leadership in issues of sexual morality, for instance, then certainly I
should heed the Pope's counsel on an issue as serious and important as
waging war.
And though War is horrible and nauseating the Church does understand that at
times it happens and that at times it is even just to wage war. But what
the Church, and in particular the most recent Papal leadership has
emphasized is that care be taken to wage Just War and to wage War with Just
Tactics.
I completely agree that War waged against Germany in WWII was Just War.
That does not mean that all of the tactics we used were just.
Yes, there are times when bad guys use innocent people as human shields.
Does that negate their "innocent-ness"? If they are knowlingly
participating then they have become combatants and do lose their innocent
status. But if through no fault of their own, they are being used as
shields, they still retain their innocent-ness, don't they?
And the Catholic Church is clear on this issue. It is never permissible to
kill innocent people.
When it comes to terrorism, that makes things very, very
difficult....because we are trying to stop people who kill innocent people.
And this is precisely why I think it is so difficult for a Catholic who is
truly trying to follow the leadership of his Church, to make some of these
very difficult decisions that a Commander in Chief may have to make.
But my bigger point is that as Catholics we should truly lead American
culture in our fight against all Moral Evil. And we should continue to
wrestle with issues like you and I are doing right now. Thanks again Allen!
Second: Applying 'just war' doctrine to international diplomacy is just one sort of decision a Catholic political leader might face.
Now, finally, my comment:
"Can Catholics be Politicians?" Yes.
Nominal Catholics - people who say they're Catholics, but demonstrate little evidence of having learned Catholic beliefs and practices, are in politics today. Sometimes prominently.
Catholics who do understand the basics of their faith - and perhaps more - have little choice but to engage in the political life of their nation, to the extent that their abilities and the laws and customs of their nation allow.
This is my "opinion" - but, much more to the point, it is what the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) says.
"...Catholics who bring their moral convictions into public life do not threaten democracy or pluralism but enrich them and the nation. The separation of church and state does not require division between belief and public action, between moral principles and political choices, but protects the right of believers and religious groups to practice their faith and act on their values in public life...." (http://www.usccb.org/bishops/catholicsinpolitic...) (more at http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2004/04-162.htm and elsewhere on usccb.org)
I'm strongly inclined to agree that the time when it might have made sense for Catholics living in America to bend over backward to show that they're 'real Americans' has passed. The time to act like Catholics is here.